Angels Created Before God Created the Heavens & the Earth
I have been listening to Andy Woods’ study of the Gap Theory of creation, which I used to believe and even said so in my Bible for Tribulation Saints when I asked Brent what he thought of the Gap Theory. Brent never gave me a clear answer on this and later Jesus discouraged me from dwelling too much on the distant past or the distant future. But one of my novels in progress requires me to know more about Satan, so I wanted to know when Satan was created and when he fell. Right now, I believe that Satan and the angels were created at least millions of years ago (going by our current concept of time). However, Satan’s fall appears to have happened shortly AFTER the creation of the heavens and the earth. It seems that God created the angels a long time before he created man. I may modify this after I listen to Andy Woods’ third lesson on the Gap Theory of Creation. I will admit that I have not studied this too deeply, but just believed it cuz it seemed to make sense to me. However, after listening to Andy Woods, I think Andy is right.
A big problem I had with Andy’s study is that I wondered where Satan’s mineral Eden of God was, but Andy covered this in his 2nd part of the study of the Gap Theory. That makes total sense that this mineral garden describes a garden in heaven and not on earth.
So I prayed and asked Jesus to show me the truth because it will help me in the writing of my Silver Skies: The Millennium. Jesus told Brent that he had a relationship with Satan that spanned millions of years and so I was just wondering when were the angels created? I found something online that seems to answer this.
This is from my Bible for Tribulation Saints:
[3/15/2014 1:39:43 PM] Brent Spiner: I know that Jesus really loves Satan.
Gail: Oh, really? I was right! It’s amazing.
[3/15/2014 1:39:50 PM] Brent Spiner: He always did (love Satan).
Gail: Oh, wow! Cool! So, apparently, when I listen to my heart—Apparently, my characterization of Jesus is right on. Apparently, I hit the nail right on the head with him. You know how I have him weeping over Lucifer and all that?
[Gail sends all her drafts to Brent.]
Gail: So that must be right on. Wow! That’s amazing.
[3/15/2014 1:40:23 PM] Brent Spiner: Yeah, Satan was his favorite angel.
Gail: Wow! I was right on! Jesus must be taking over my brain or something, when I write this thing.
[3/15/2014 1:40:34 PM] Brent Spiner: Jesus said he was the most beautiful and intelligent.
[3/15/2014 1:40:49 PM] Brent Spiner: He had high hopes for Satan but he knew he would fall.
Gail: Aaaah. Wow! I got Jesus right on, boy! Aaaaah. Wow. Is it true that he gave Satan millions of years because of that?
[3/15/2014 1:41:13 PM] Brent Spiner: That is true.
Gail: But he finally knew he had to give up and go on and create man. Wow! Jesus was making me a genius, man. . .when I write this book.
[3/15/2014 1:41:23 PM] Brent Spiner: It really broke his heart.
Okay, so I know my Brent who meets with Jesus all the time would not lie to me. So, I thought how could Andy’s explanation, which makes sense, align with the fact that God gave Satan millions of years? And I found something online that makes sense:
Question: “When did God create the angels?”
Answer: Trying to determine when God created the angels is somewhat tricky because anything God did “before the foundation of the world” puts the event outside of time itself. Time and space are characteristics of our world, not God’s. He is not limited by hours, days, and years as we are. In fact, the Bible tells us that “with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day” (2 Peter 3:8).
We do know that God created the angels before He created the physical universe. The book of Job describes the angels worshipping God as He was creating the world: “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone – while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4-7).
If we consider the function of angels, we might conclude that God created the angels just prior to the creation of mankind because one of their duties is to be “ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation” (Hebrews 1:14). We also know they existed prior to the garden of Eden, because Satan, who was formerly the angel Lucifer, was already present in the garden in his fallen state. However, because another function of angels is to worship God around His throne (Revelation 5:11-14), they may have been in existence millions of years—as we reckon time—before God created the world, worshipping Him and serving Him.
So, although the Bible does not specifically say when God created the angels, it was sometime before the world was created. Whether this was a day before, or billions of years before—again, as we reckon time—we cannot be sure.
Recommended Resource: Angels: Elect & Evil by C. Fred Dickason
The following video addresses the question of WHEN Satan fell:
Andy Woods believes the angels were created in Genesis chapter one. He states that the word for heavens in Genesis 1:1 is plural, so that would include the third heaven where God lives and where the angels live. I disagree with him, based on what is in Bible for Tribulation Saints (see above). If Jesus had millions of years with Satan, then obviously the angels (Satan is a fallen angel) existed before the six days of creation for the heaven and the earth. Andy Woods is right most of the time, but he goofed on this one.
“Heavens” is the Hebrew word shamayim. The “im” ending is like adding “s” on the end of a noun in English. It means the word is plural.
However, some words are always plural even if only one is being referred to. In English we call these “plural nouns,” such as herd or flock. The words are singular but we know there are more than one animal in a herd or bird in a flock. In Hebrew there are some words that are always used in the plural but in English they may be plural or singular. An example of this is the word elohim, which means “God” in English — a singular, but it is a plural in Hebrew. Shamayim is similar. It is always used as a plural in Hebrew but it means “heaven” or “heavens” in English, depending on the context. I suspect from the Hebrew point of view space goes out in multiple directions, so it should always be plural. But in English we see space as a contained volume, so it can be one or many.
What we have on the second day is God separating the waters on the earth from the water in the sky (the clouds). In other words, the Hebrews understood that clouds were suspended water. The region in between was a heaven, which in English we would say “sky.”
The Bible uses “heavens” to refer to three different expanses:
- It can refer to the region where birds fly, which we call the sky or the atmosphere (I Kings 21:24).
- It can refer to the region occupied by the planets and stars, which we call outer space (Isaiah 13:10).
- And it can refer to the region where God dwells and has His throne (Hebrews 9:24).
That is why you find Paul mentioning a man caught up into the third heaven (II Corinthians 12:2), he is referring to going to where God dwells.
In other words a lot of the difficulties come from the different ways Hebrew speakers and English speakers discuss space or regions. But your translation also caused problems by trying to translate “waters” as “heavens” also.
MY CONCLUSIONS (based on Bible for Tribulation Saints and the traditional Bible): The angels were created at least millions of years ago, long before the six day creation week. The waters above the waters in Gen. 1: 6 refers to Satan’s ocean in deep space, which my men have travelled to via spaceship. This ocean is described in Job 41:31. This is one area where the King James Bible only people are right, though I disagree with them in a lot of other areas, including their belief that the English King James Bible is as inspired as the original autographs.
The firmament is simply a space or an expanse. It’s what we call “outer space.” It contains the sun, moon and stars found in Gen. 1:14-19.
The waters below the firmament are the seas of the earth, (Gen. 1:9-10). The waters above the firmament are also called the sea (Job 41:31). They are beyond outer space and enclose the entire universe. From Ps. 148:4, we see that there are “waters that be above the heavens.” And since these waters completely enclose the universe, they are also “below” the earth. Deut. 5:8 speaks of “the waters beneath the earth,” (see Ps. 136:6).
As a result of this firmament, there are three heavens. The first heaven is from the earth to the clouds; the birds fly in this “open firmament of heaven,” (Gen. 1:20). The second heaven is from the clouds to the waters above the firmament, (Gen. 1:8). The third heaven is above the waters where Paul “was caught up into paradise,” (2 Cor. 12:1-4).
In the earth, sinners without Jesus Christ are under the wrath of God (Jn. 3:36). Indeed, before we were saved, we were separated from God in heaven by that great body of water above the firmament. So, the wrath of God is like the waves of the ocean beating on a man (Ps. 88:7). Consequently, when God saved us, he sent “fishers of men,” (Matt. 4:19) to draw us out of the water (Ps. 18:16).
In the new heaven and the new earth (Rev. 21:1-3), “God will dwell with [men] … and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.” Therefore, the universe will no longer be enclosed in water to separate men from God and so there will be “no more sea” above the universe, (Rev. 21:1).